Men need to understand what upsets women, what makes them feel invaded: Mallika Sarabhai

Her association with Kolkata has been long. She used to perform regularly at Nazrul Manch 20 years ago and her last visit here was for a performance two years ago. Back in the city for a similar show at Nazrul Manch, Mallika Sarabhai tells CT about how her journey has shaped her personality and voices her concerns about the #MeToo movement. She also explains how feminism should be ideally viewed and what art can aim to achieve in a country that has earned a reputation of stifling voices.Excerpts…
You’ve donned many hats. But how would you best describe yourself? Which role do you enjoy the most?
I don’t need to. I am comfortable in what you call my many hats. I let you decide what you want to call me. All I know is that I am happiest when doing multiple things.
Tell us about your journey of turning into a social activist from a creative person.
The Mahabharata and the five years I spent travelling around the world is where it started. I’d watched my mother, (Mrinalini Sarabhai) use dance to talk about ‘non classical’ issues, including the environment and the Dalit violence. But I didn’t think of myself as a creator. However, the experience of seeing hundreds of women from many countries relate to my interpretation of Draupadi made me realise that instead of having a part of me involved in activism and another as an artiste, the combining of these is where the power of communication lies. So, I came out of the journey convinced that it was my calling.
Who has been your inspiration all along?
Amma as an artiste.
What is your assessment of the contemporary cultural scenario in the country?
Mixed I’d say. Some really interesting original work is being done in dance, theatre and music. Then there’s a lot that’s copied or derived from the west.
#MeToo has created an uproar all over the world. Do you think such movements can address gender bias in society? How do you think it can encompass the broader society rather than being confined only to the urban population?
This is a battle that needs to have men and women as partners. This is not only about women. And women cannot change the situation by alienating men. It’s great that they are having the courage to call out men — important ones, who have always taken women as part of the privilege of power and success. And it is important that organisations put in mechanisms to counter this. Men need to understand what upsets women, what makes them feel invaded. There need to be conversations to make men see what’s wrong, what’s entitlement and privilege. There are many men who’ll understand and we must not alienate them. It’s a difficult situation that needs careful navigation. Otherwise, the backlash will hurt us. Jobs will be lost. Human relationships will be lost. We will be ghettoised even more. I was recently talking to women in the film industry in Kerala, who’ve started the Women in Cinema Collective, and they were mentioning how all work has dried up for those who had spoken out. I suggested that more women producers and directors need to be at the helm to counter this. But the system is so tilted in favour of men, that it’s going to be a long fight. We just need to dig our heels in and work towards it.
Do you think art or creativity is a way to salvage the situation where people are seen being intolerant towards differing points of view?
For the abysmal state of our civilisation and country, we need a massive transformation of mindsets, of our understanding of what justice is, what success is, what acceptance is, what is kind to the earth and to humanity, what is right and what is wrong. Many strands will be needed for this. The arts can be one powerful strand in the medley.
What would you tell parents who are yet to warm up to the idea of their children taking up a career in the arts? Do you think the scenario is changing?
It’s tough; hard to make ends meet with dignity, truthfulness and honesty. It’s a dirty world of politics and favouritism, but if it’s one’s passion, one has to go for it. And nothing can be more fulfilling when one is in the zone.
What needs to be done to celebrate the various art forms more often and with good participation? What do you feel about the Swara Samrat Festival?
This is my first time at the festival and my return to Nazrul Manch after 20 years, although at the beginning of my career I’ve performed here frequently. The artistes’ line-up points to a good festival and I congratulate the organisers.
How does it feel visiting Kolkata again? Would you still call the city the cultural capital of India?
I last performed here two years ago and I got the same love and appreciation I’ve received here since 40 years. It’s also funny that nearly all my autograph requests come from Bengal. Yes, I’ve faith that it still is the cultural capital of India.
Arts, especially theatre, has been a medium of expressing angst and questioning the authority. Do you think, in the present scenario, it’s still a platform to express the voice of dissent? Do you think the space of dissent is narrowing in our society?
Over the past few years, there has been such repercussions against speaking against mobocracy, questioning anything and having an alternate voice that the arts of dissent are at their lowest point now. I pray this changes. I’ve never seen an India filled with such fear and self-censorship. I never thought I would.
You’ve always been vocal in favour of the stringent punishment against perpetrators of violence against woman. In India, where often violence begins at home, do you think exemplary punishments can end crime?
No, but it can certainly curb it. Our conviction rate for rape is 4% and that too after years and years. If judgments could come within two or four months, that would help. If schools ran massive campaigns about related issues so that the new generation thought differently, that would help. If parents brought up children as children with the same rules and privileges, that too would help. There’s a very interesting book by Deepa Narayan that points to all the things women are brainwashed into thinking that lead to the situation we are in. It’s a long process where every section of society, family, policy, government has to work together to see change in maybe 20 years. But policies and the rule of law can bring immediate shifts.
Opinionated women are often branded arrogant. Did you ever face such insinuation or any kind of criticism?
Why should it matter how one is branded? Society is a hypocritical and usually useless mass of nothingness. I’ve been called such names that most people would shrink and never re-emerge. Of course, I’ve been called arrogant. A ball breaker. A wh**e. And more! Oh yes, a fraud! So? The faster we get over these things the better we will get on with life.
What needs to be done to let people understand the true meaning of feminism and how it should work for women?
Feminism is about getting human rights, equal rights for women; get a level playing field. In India, our mythological women, women in history, didn’t see the point of becoming masculine to get ahead. The Rani of Jhansi fought with her child tied to her. Kali didn’t need to transform into a male to fight the demon. So, India has a huge advantage in understanding that female power is not a contest with male power — in fact together, the two make the whole. It’s not about pulling men down to get ahead; it’s not about one chapati that, if eaten by women, will let men have less. And feminism is also about giving men freedom — from having to spend their time policing their women, from the burden of always having to be the decision maker, the one to know what is right and the one to shoulder the family burden. It requires conversations, debates. It requires strategies where men are free of fear — of losing face, of mardangi, of not being able to show emotions without being called names.