The Emma Barnett Show | BBC Radio 5 Live
The Orgasm Cult | BBC Sounds
Crikey, that was a riveting 15 minutes on Tuesday’s Emma Barnett Show. Here’s the background. On Monday, Barnett discussed verbal sexual harassment of women in public places: men catcalling girls and women as they go about their lives. Listeners called in with their own experiences, and at one point Barnett asked for men who harass women in this way to phone in too, to put their case. No one called.
But then, one did. George – not his real name – phoned right at the end of the Monday programme, so Barnett interviewed him straight afterwards and recorded it. It was this recording that was played out at the start of Tuesday’s show. Gripping, revolting, sad, it was one of those audio conversations that makes you stop what you’re doing and just listen.
In essence, George didn’t think there was much wrong with shouting at schoolgirls, as long as they look as though they’re 16 or over, and they’re “in a short skirt or those tight trousers”. “What’s a man supposed to do?” he wondered. What George does is tell them they have nice legs or bottoms, sometimes tries to get their number. He knows when they like it, apparently, because sometimes they smile. If they shout back at him he ignores it: he thinks if women don’t want such harassment they should dress differently.
Barnett pressed him, as she does. There was some to and fro. And then: “Women, to me, are just… objects,” said George. Such a small word, so hard to hear. George is 40 years old.
What was amazing about this interview was, first, that George called in at all (it says something about Barnett’s connection to her listeners); and then, that he faltered, just a tiny little bit. He started out fairly confident, and was far from changed by the end; but at times you could hear him wondering. “So it’s all right to think it, but not to shout it?” he asked at one point. “Yeah!” said Barnett. “Are you planning to carry on doing this until you’re an old man?” she asked, later. “I suppose I don’t want to think about getting old,” said George. What if women shout back and “call you a pervert?” wondered Barnett. “I’d rather they not say that, because I’m not a pervert,” said George.
As the interview progressed, you could hear George’s history: a self-confessed shy teenager who saw his friends’ success (“they used to get loads of girls”), who never learned any other way to approach the opposite sex. Who never grew to think of women as people. Once you have those attitudes, they’re hard to shift. I remember the telly shows of my youth, as I’m sure George does too: all that chasing and lying and fnar-ing, as though the only way for a straight man to have sex is to trick a woman into it. Nothing to do with her at all. And we end with a 40-year-old leaning out of his car to shout sexual comments at girls as they travel to school, and he just can’t see anything wrong with it.
More on sex and women: here’s a new Radio 4 podcast series on BBC Sounds, The Orgasm Cult. It’s a schaden-fraud podcast – one of those where a smooth-talking CEO persuades people to part from their money, because what’s on offer seems fashionable, enlightened and empowering. Later, of course, the CEO is proved to be a cult leader/BS merchant, and everything comes tumbling down. Think WeCrashed or Escaping NXIVM or The Dropout.
The Orgasm Cult has elements of all of these. It’s about OneTaste, a company that charged its members for teaching them OM (orgasmic meditation), and was subsequently investigated by the FBI for what presenter Nastaran Tavakoli-Far calls “allegations of predatory sales tactics and cult-like activities”. Tavakoli-Far introduces us to OneTaste co-founder Nicole Daedone via – how did you guess? – Daedone’s TED talk in which she explains how a Buddhist monk stroking her bits led her to orgasm. His religion seems irrelevant to me, but whatever gets you off, I suppose.
Tavakoli-Far has certainly done her homework: the opening episode finds her sitting in a California bedroom while a man thumbs his wife’s clitoris Om-style for 15 minutes (there’s a timer). “One mic near Beth’s mouth and the other aimed at her crotch,” informs Tavakoli-Far, just another reporter going to the source material. More interestingly, she promises to move from OneTaste to an examination of how the wellness industry exploits women’s insecurities around sex and achievement. God, can we just agree that shouting about sex in public isn’t seductive? And neither is paying for it. Treating other people like objects: just not sexy.
Three shows with two central women
Hell Cats
A new Audible Original that dramatises the true tale of two female pirates, Anne Bonny and Mary Read, operating around the turn of the 18th century. Written by Carina Rodney and directed by Kate Saxon, this is a deliciously rollicking listen, noisy and dramatic from the start. Bonny and Read are deemed “hell cats” by the New Providence governor, who offers a 500 guinea reward for their capture. The English Read and Irish Bonny scoff at the idea of being in thrall to a man. “Those petticoats are long since burnt!” insists Read. “Drink and sing with me, for soon we sail!” You get the idea.
Dear Joan and Jericha
They’re back! Middle-aged ladies of letters Joan (Julia Davis) and Jericha (Vicki Pepperdine) chit-chat about what’s going on in their lives, as well as solving listeners’ problems. No holds barred, of course: the very first minutes of episode 2 of this third series involves Joan “passing a tiny stool” atop singer Alfie Boe, and “one of Little Mix trying to eat it”. If you find this upsetting, this show might not be for you. Such stories are mild for J and J. This show is filthy, one of the most unsafe-for-work podcasts out there. And also, of course, one of the most laugh-out-loud funny.
The Players
Though this Radio 5 Live podcast, about women’s football, has only one host – former New Zealand captain Bex Smith – she interviews two players each week. Thus far, Smith has welcomed England players Steph Houghton and Jill Scott; USA and Manchester City players Rose Lavelle and Sam Mewis; and PSG’s Nadia Nadim and Christiane Endler. Football banter is not for me (pranks, tactics, “mentality”: arrrgh), but I enjoy this programme for its revelations about women who have to work as well as compete as elite athletes, and for daring to be as boring and nerdy about the beautiful game as any other football show.