‘The Circle’s’ Lee Swift Is Proud to Be an Example for Gays of All Generations

When The Circle returned for Season 2, we all wondered if the show could possibly match the feel-good magic of Season 1. After all, this was a cast that knew how the game worked—and they entered the Circle ready to play. This led to a blocking heard ’round the world, the culmination fo the most intense showdown in Circle US history. And that was how this season started. But no matter your first impression of a season, The Circle is ultimately a show about human connection—and no player embodies that more than Lee Swift, a.k.a. River.

In a way he was the most fishy catfish of the entire season (until we met John, that is). A 58-year-old playing as a hipster half his age? It was a risky game, especially considering that today’s slang progresses at fiber-optic speeds. But Lee made it work (#JFTF), his pure intentions, loyal nature, and goofy humor shining through every TV screen in every apartment.

For me—a person that you are not interested in right now because you’re here for River—seeing Lee on TV gave me a taste of what I didn’t even know I was missing from my reality TV diet. Here’s a 50+ gay man from Texas flying an all-inclusive pride flag on my TV, in a genre that can tend to ignore gay men after they turn 30. Lee’s presence on the show gave me more gay joy than I ever thought I would get from a Netflix competition show—and I think it’s safe to say that the world agrees with me. His cast mates love him, social media loves him, and I am beyond thrilled that I had the pleasure of chatting with this absolute legend. Everyone: listen to Lee.

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Decider: How has it been the last couple of weeks? I think you’re the breakout sensation of the season.

Lee Swift: Well thanks! I feel like I’m breaking out anyway. But yeah, no, it’s been amazing. You can’t anticipate it. I thought, yeah, it’s a big show, blah blah blah. But I really didn’t know that it was gonna be like drinking from a firehose, and that’s what it feels like!

Did you ever think about catfishing under your female pen name, or was River always the plan?

I think Deleesa was brilliant at it. I think I would be horrific at it, playing another gender. The age difference I wasn’t great at anyway. I had this whole backstory about how River came from a religious family because I was trying to soften that he didn’t know pop culture. But I didn’t get very many opportunities to put that out there and none of it got aired, but that was my game plan. I think another gender is very hard. You have to be really good to do that.

The thing that resonated with me as a gay man was seeing a gay person of your age group on television—because reality TV almost always focuses on young gay people. Did you ever think about how you were representing for our forefathers, in a way?

Honestly, that was in the back of my mind. But when I was going into the Circle—because I’m a reality fan, I thought typically it’s one gay person, maybe two. Maybe but really unlikely. And so that’s why I had the [Progress Pride] flag [hanging in my apartment].

There’s a lot of work that still has to be done, especially for the trans community, so I wanted to represent that and talk about how important activism is to me. But when immediately Courtney popped up, I was like wow! And then Bryant had the rainbow heart as an ally, and I’m going, “This is amazing!” I was just overwhelmed and thrilled.

And then gay icon Lance Bass shows up! Have you gotten to Zoom with Lance Bass yet? Has Lisa hooked y’all up?

No, but I would love to meet him. I think he’s amazing. I am actually into more than his music. I would drive my husband Stephen to the train station because he’s a banker—complete opposite of me. You could probably tell that by the video from home thing. You know, no “I love you,” no crying, just “win that money.” But I would drive him to the train station for work and we’d listened to Lance’s show on Sirius with Giggles, Turkey, and his husband Michael, and we just fell in love with him then. I think they do pop culture stuff really fun and they did serious stuff a little bit. I just think [Lance] is an amazing talent and has a great message. So I’m excited about meeting him. He may be like, “Oh, cringe, here comes that crazy guy.”

“Here comes the fangirl of the season.” You also have what has to be the catchphrase of the season: #JFTF. Where did that come from? Were you told that it was a real hashtag?

They didn’t show this, but I actually said, I’m this 58-year-old guy and I want to see if I can create a hashtag that goes viral. I thought, here’s this great platform. And I do have a personal motto, which is every day I want to do one thing that’s just for fun, because life can get really serious and heavy. I try to do that every day, just have a little moment just to have some fun, and [find] as many moments as you can. So it was intentional. I don’t think that played how they edited it [laughs], which is fine. I think it was beautiful how they edited it. I’m so happy with the show on every level.

There was also that YOLO moment in your intro, which sets up #JFTF.

It’s absolutely true I did not know [about YOLO]. I think I had heard it, and FOMO too. My niece and I had this heart to heart, she’s 21 or 20 at the time, and we went through everything. She didn’t cover the basics. I talked to her after and she said, “I was sure you already knew that because everybody knows!” No, no, I didn’t know YOLO. Didn’t know FOMO.

Later on, what were your thoughts when John showed up? Mitchell even said he thought you were John when you went to block him. John was a 64-year-old gay man and potentially a peer of yours—if you were playing yourself and John wasn’t two catfish in one.

I think Jack and Lisa, how brilliant of them to create this character so that he would be this elder to River and Courtney. What they didn’t know was, John’s really my story, minus the children. I bought that hook, line, and sinker, I’ll be honest. No catfish vibes. I was like, yes! I’ve got somebody that I can relate to! And no, I can’t ever tell him, but everything he says I’m going to just soak it up. So I bought it 100%. So brilliant of them. I wanted John to be real so bad because I loved every part of him.

Pretty much every single person I’ve talked to this season—Bryant, Terilisha, Khat—they all called you their #CircleBestie. That’s why I’m calling you Miss Congeniality of Season 2, after the RuPaul’s Drag Race title that’s voted on by the rest of the cast. Did you anticipate everyone being so close to you after The Circle?

No, but I love them. That’s the crying, for instance. I’ve had a little grief, “How can you cry for Bryant? You just met him.” Well, I’m a very emotive guy. I just am and I’m not ashamed of that. And I knew how bad I wanted to be there, and I knew how bad it would have hurt if I had been the first one out. I had had some good chats with Bryant, really, really nice chats. So that was what was coming out, just emoting for him. Empathy, empathy.

So when all these beautiful lights that are around me as cast members—I just give them my love because I want them to succeed wildly, and I think they will. I think they’re mega talented. And so because of that, they give it back. They’re very generous and kind, helping me through this digital quagmire. But I’m figuring it out! I’m on TikTok, Brett!

I love how your role on The Circle specifically speaks to the gay experience, because in order for us to have children, it involves surrogacy or adoption and sometimes it isn’t isn’t legal, etc. So we do find—our nieces and nephews, for instance. And the way that Khat and Terilisha and Bryant all told me, “Lee’s always checking in, making sure we’re fine, congratulating us.” You’re channeling your parental instincts onto your cast mates, which is really sweet.

I think that’s right. I think especially of my generation—now you’re after me, but I think older gay people, we had to create our families. I’m close to my family, but no one in my family had ever come out. No one. I was the very first person to ever come out, and so I didn’t have any examples. I had older people back then that took me under their wing. It’s this created family experience. It’s been amazing to continue to perpetuate that, because I know it’s so important to have support and people that you can say, “Oh, that’s the direction I want to go in.” Not exactly, but there’s a future for me. So that’s what I want to be if I can.

And I think that’s why it was so important having you on The Circle, because a lot of gay people my age and younger never got to see that future depicted on TV when we were struggling with our identities. That is why it meant a lot to me to see you on the show and your camaraderie with Courtney. It was just so cool, like, y’all were ride or die to the point that people were trying to get one of you.

Yeah—I would say as far as strategy, Courtney and I did make a little mistake in that it was so evident that we were so tight. That, to me, was the strategy we missed. But he’s amazing. One thing that I do, Brett, is my mentors—I call them mentors, of all ages, and Courtney is a mentor of mine. Because I can learn from anybody. I don’t know hardly anything. I try to be a mentor in any way I can, but I’m always trying to learn. He has filled me up with so much information and experiences about how the world works now. I was missing it! I’ll be honest, social media, before The Circle I was really missing out. I didn’t realize! I was fearful of it. I didn’t understand it. I felt like oh, you’re so exposed. So this has really turned me around and now I’m realizing how you can be virtually hugged by so many wonderful people and really have some deep connections on social media.

So what’s the next adventure for Lee? Do you have any more books on the way? Are you getting more merchandise? Some #JFTF pins?

Yeah, I’ve got to get you a pin! I’m doing some crazy t-shirts with my drawings because, believe it or not, all these people are interested in my drawings. So I’m like, “Okay, if you guys want them, let me get those out.” Books—I actually have an idea for River’s story. I took pictures of Doak, who is the guy that River is based on, an amazing young man. So I have a cover ready, but I’m so busy. A producer friend of mine, we pitched a TV show to Netflix years ago. She just did a film, Senior Moment with William Shatner and Jean Smart. She said, “You’re in now. We got to go in with something else.” And I said okay. So the novel writing is going to the side and I think I’m going to pull some old scripts out and see if I can do something with them. I’m having so much fun with everything. I’m having so much fun and riding this wherever it takes me.

Follow Lee Swift on Instagram at @leeswiftauthor. The Circle Season 2 is now streaming on Netflix.

Stream The Circle on Netflix